So here's what he wrote:
Once again, we do agree on a couple of things.As usual another anonymous gutless coward posting, copying and spreading obviously un-provable lies and gossip.And of course GWT is the classic "8-Ball Board Game" just compare their "board game" to TTI, BIM, WEW etc.Although, readers I do recommend you take the only relevant advice of this anonymous gutless coward, "geronimo" here, who steals the name of a brave warrior when he writes ......"To everyone else - be careful who you listen to......"So, who do you listen to folks??? The guy who gives you his name and contact details; documents you can verify on your own; the guy who won a Superior Court Judgment against a prestigious 24 lawyer law firm; predicted the collapse of of hundreds of banks and corporations, and predicted for years the dangers of Ponzi/pyramid schemes flooding the world and how, unchecked, they will destroy the world economy as they did the the Country of Albania in the late 1990's ...... or do you listen to some cowardly "church basement type" gossip hiding, like the "proclaimed Christian" KKK, in the shadows of anonymity. Now that, like the pyramid fraud of GWT should be a "no-brainer". And that's the truth! dave - CBNow
- Be Careful Who You Listen to...
- That people should make up their own minds (though I think they should do it based on facts)
As for my anonymity - I've already stated the relevant facts (that two different friends previously asked me to review BIM and GWT, which I did, and declined both, though GWT seemed the safer bet of the two), and now I'd prefer to stick to the facts of the matter, rather than slander and name-calling. I've decided NOT to keep responding to him on the FACTnet, mainly because they started charging for people to post on their message board (never heard of that as a viable internet business model before, but I wish them luck). I guess they already have one paying customer, since it seems Gator Dave is using his CBNow donation money to defend himself on message boards. I guess he has to keep his sole income stream going.
Since it seems that Gator Dave Thornton is still making his specific assertions without actually taking the time to understand the facts, let me do people the favour of giving you some additional information to review, so that you can make your own decision. Which might lead you to make a certain decision on Dave, or not. But that's up to you.
From the above, he makes an assertion about GWT, and asks us to test it:
GWT is the classic "8-Ball Board Game" just compare their "board game" to TTI, BIM, WEW
The Board Game or 8-Ball Model
(Source: Wikipedia article on Pyramid Schemes, sub-heading 8-Ball Model)
Many pyramids are more sophisticated than the simple model. These recognize that
recruiting a large number of others into a scheme can be difficult so a
seemingly simpler model is used. In this model each person must recruit two
others, but the ease of achieving this is offset because the depth required to recoup any money also increases. The scheme requires a person to recruit two others, who must each recruit two others, who must each recruit two others.
The "8-ball" model contains a total of 15 members. Note that unlike in the picture, the triangular setup in the cue game of eight-ball corresponds to an arithmetic
rogression 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 = 15. The pyramid scheme in the picture in contrast is a geometric progression 1 + 2 + 4 + 8 = 15.Prior instances of this scam have been called the "Airplane Game" and the four tiers labelled as "captain", "co-pilot", "crew", and "passenger" to denote a person's level. Another instance was called the "Original Dinner Party" which labelled the tiers as "dessert", "main course", "side salad", and "appetizer". A person on the "dessert" course is the one at the top of the tree. Another variant "Treasure Traders" variously used gemology terms such as "polishers", "stone cutters", etc. or gems "rubies", "sapphires", "diamonds", etc. Such schemes may try to downplay their pyramid nature by referring to themselves as "gifting circles" with money being "gifted". Popular scams such as the "Women Empowering Women"[13] do exactly this. Joiners may even be told that "gifting" is a way to skirt around tax laws.
Whichever euphemism is used, there are 15 total people in four tiers (1 + 2 + 4 + 8) in the scheme - the person at the top of this tree is the "captain", the two below are "co-pilots", the four below are "crew" and the bottom eight joiners are the "passengers".
The eight passengers must each pay (or "gift") a sum (e.g. $1000) to join the scheme. This sum (e.g. $8000) goes to the captain who leaves, with everyone remaining moving up one tier. There are now two new captains so the group splits in two with each group requiring eight new passengers. A person who joins the scheme as a passenger will not see a return until they exit the scheme as a captain. This requires that 14 others have been persuaded to join underneath them.
Therefore, the bottom 3 tiers of the pyramid always lose their money when the scheme finally collapses.
Sorry for the length of the article, but there's some good stuff in there. Wikipedia does a good job of explaining it, and even mentions Treasure Traders and Women Empowering Women as previous examples, as does Dave.
The key points are:
- You join a "board" - hence the name "boardgame"
- You pay once, but could rejoin again if you want (and many encourage you to)
- You only make money once, when you get to the top and your board completes & splits, when it fills in to the total of 15 people (1-2-4-8). In theory you could make a bigger board, but the classic ones do 15.
- As a result, in order to make ANY money, you must recruit your people and hope the board eventually completes so you get any money back - otherwise you're just stuck with whatever you receive in your initial package (it better be worth what you paid for it, but its hard for that to be the case when they have to pay all these commissions out).
Clear so far? Now the other side...
Global Wealth Trade's Variable Compensation Plan
So lets compare that with Global Wealth Trade, as Dave asks us to do. When I was reviewing them before, I searched and found their Compensation Plan on their company website.Note: from what I've seen, most of these 8-ball or boardgame schemes DO NOT post their compensation plan anywhere visible to the public. Makes it a little more difficult for the authorities to come after them, I'd imagine. Most legitimate network marketing companies DO post their full plan in plain sight, because they have nothing to hide. I looked into the details posted on their site to see if there was anything that seemed like the 8-Ball Model Dave claims is plain for all to see.
Here's what they say about what you get, and how you can make money with them:
Each package includes the business startup kit and product inventory (SAC). The starter kit is sold at cost and includes distributorship, annual fee, website and shopping cart, and business-in-a-bag. Product inventory can be used for personal purchase or buying items for resale.
Package levels:
GOLD ($697)
TITANIUM ($1,597)
PLATINUM ($3,597)A person can also apply to join as a Retailer (Retail member). This does not include any product purchase ... (and) a retailer can earn retail profits and wholesale profits.
With GWT, a member can earn using any one, or all, five ways:
So you can earn money in lots of different ways to recoup your initial investment, and to start turning a profit.
- Retail profits
- Wholesale profits
- Team Commissions and Residual
- Business Development Bonus
- Incentives
First off, by buying the products at wholesale, and selling them at the retail price online or offline, and making the difference. This is a completely viable normal business - and jewellery IS a high margin business. And some people would probably want to become a member just to get the members' prices, like at a Costco. Especially someone with a major jewellery purchase coming up like an engagement, anniversary, or someone who collects watches? Others could just buy and then sell at home parties, or directly to people they know, online, etc.
Or you can sell packages of products, which include their choice of products plus a business kit, website, business cards, etc, and earn a wholesale commission on the package. Every time you sell a package, and there's no additional requirements to receive it (such as getting to a top of a board, board splitting, etc) That sounds reasonable, and has nothing to do with a boardgame.
And if you opt to build a team after introducing your first two members, you can get paid a
commission based on a percentage of the total product sales in the team in a given week - whether packages, one-off website sales, or monthly SAC account contributions.While its true that this is a Binary system (link to the Wikipedia article) - as I discussed in the previous post - since you can only put two people on your first level below you, this has nothing to do with the 8-ball or Boardgame that Dave keeps asserting GWT is. Based on what, I'm really not sure. As you can see from their company diagram, you can get paid on these Team Commissions based on the total VOLUME - which has nothing to do with how many people sign up. There's no boards of 15 people. There's no boards splitting. No 1-2-4-8 hierarchy. In fact, you can get paid on the team commissions with as few as two sales - one Platinum Package on each side would make you a $600 commission (from the $6000 in sales volume, and every $3000 in sales paying $300). And you'd be making wholesale profits at the same time to increase your commission to $900 so far. And you'd still have $3000 to spend on your own products - for you, or to resell.
Its a binary plan - which is an accepted and legal network marketing structure.
And there's more ways to be compensated: if you help other people make these commissions, you can make a matching bonus.
And like many other sales jobs or businesses, you can qualify for trips or cars based on continued performance.
Conclusion
In summary, Global Wealth Trade is not even remotely like an 8-ball Boardgame model. So Dave is dead wrong here. Which is exactly why I've been saying that Gator Dave should be more careful about his targets if his true aim is to stop ILLEGAL pyramid schemes. But if his goal is as CDT claims - to extort money out of his targets by attacking them from the internet, then maybe again he should try picking someone who is illegal. But I guess he doesn't have any assets he'd be worried about in a defamation suit, which is probably why GWT and other companies don't sue him. Its just not worth the money.
Once again Dave, stick to what you know... or at least figure out what you don't know. Right now, the latter is more than clear to all of us.
But I'm sure instead you'll either change your line of attack (since you've been proven wrong here), call me names, or start randomly mentioning scams from Albania or Bolivia or who knows where. Or probably all of the above. Happy Easter Gator Dave, from my church basement. Or somewhere.
Next up? Dave's other misplaced Binary Target: Monavie.
If you want to read their compensation plan, you can find it in plain view on their company website. Where Dave could find it, but of course he just assumes its another 1-2-4-8 Board Game. Like everything else?
